Religious Discussion?

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SPiKed X
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Religious Discussion?

Post by SPiKed X »

LoL, ok sorry, but we were having a debate on the shout box, and it was hard to do cuz it only let's you say so much. So I'm making this thread so that we may discuss anything religion based. (thanks to KS)
So Fatal said :
hey x, the bible never said we weren't monkeys to start out with, nor did it say how long a day in God's eyes was compared to our day
And I said:
X: Poor ole misguided youth,lol. The Bible doesn't say we came from monkes, lol. It say God created us, Man and then Woman. We were before even the monkeys, lol. Adam and Eve???
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X: lol oooops He created them on the same "day" He created us. If we came from monkeys during "evelution" then why are there still monkey?
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X: Were made in the "image" of God, not monkeys.
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X: Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over al
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X: and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
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X: 27 So God created man in his own image,
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X: in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
So now I complete my thoughts here instead:
Genesis 2:7
7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 2:15-23
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

But for Adam [h] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [j] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called 'woman, [k] '

for she was taken out of man."


Then, well you probably know the rest of the story, lol. Dang woman! Ha!

Anywho, yes it is believed God's "time" is different from ours as for what we count as "days", (or so we think). But according to "His" words, He counted a day as from light to dark. So if you look at it that way, then He does trully count days as we do, lol. We say that "God's time is different from ours" in the fact that, He knows the present, past, and future. Therefor He transcends time, (not sure that's the correct word). He isn't bound by time as we are. And yes, in His eyes, a day to us is but a flicker of an eye to Him.

Now do I believe in some aspects of "evolution", well yeh sure. Do I believe we come from monkeys? No. It can't be explained why, some monkeys became human, and some didn't.

There are many flaws to the Evolution theory in science itself. There are many things that they can't explain, yet.

I do believe that maybe some of the "Evolutionary stuff" is true. But I still believe that, in the way that God Himslef created the world, that could have been the way Evolution cites. It could have been a "big bang", the contenents might have really been one at one time. But I don't think their timing of events are correct, nor the evolution of man itself is correct.

And btw, carbon dating itself, is not an exact science yet.

LoL I love Religious discussion :D
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Post by Squee »

yeah i agree with x.. thats how i learned it.. and we had a big discusion in class about evolution i forgot exactly what was said but everything that was tested was wrong the only thing they were going by is the features and nothing else.. so i was told dont quote me on the last part
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Post by Wimpeh »

lol, fatal u didnt transformed from monkey 2 human as good as us tho ;p
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Post by lumberpat »

Ok X, I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring here. About the days: You are assuming that god is counting earth days. However, Just going by the times of light and dark, it all depends on where he is relative to the sun. For example, a Jupiter "day" (1 full rotation) is 10 earth hours. So, I believe this put's god's time back up into the air, so I agree with fatal that we have no concept of God's time.

(BTW I talk about monkeys and apes, and I do realize they are different, but you guys get the idea)

About the creation thing:

In the bible, it says that God created Animals on the land, then Humans (Genesis 1:24 = animals of land, Genesis 1:26 = humans) So, humans were after animals.

I am a strong christian, however, I do not take the first part of Genesis as the way it happened exactly. I take it more like Jesus's parables, as they are guides to what happned. If we were to take the bible at face value and not accept anything that isn't talked about, then one cannot explain the existance of Cain's Wife. It never specifically SAID that god created more people. Just that he created Man and Woman to be Rulers over the animals etc. In the next chapter it discusses that adam was made from dirt and one of God's loogies, and Eve from one of adam's ribs. Assuming they were the first, and it doesn't say, god created anyone else from that point on, then where did everyone else come from? Well, we assume that god just made everyone else, which is not a bad assumption.

Evolution:
The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with Monkeys!!!! This is a misunderstanding. The theory of evolution basically says that life will evolve to compensate for its surroundings, it says nothing of us coming from monkeys. However, a species can evolve and split into two separate roads. One who is a religious evolutionist might say that God decided to split the apes, and make one direction of apes to continue, but then he made the other road branch into humans. God still did it.

Made in God's Image:
In the World there are Black, White, Asian, Indian, American Indians. There are male and Female, there are so many different colors of hair. Now, to say we were made in god's image would mean that he has all of those characteristics, unless...It was more of a spiritual image. I personally believe that we were created in the image of god in spirit, and perhaps even in the basic human form. However, as said above, HUMANS were made in god's image, not Monkeys / apes or whatever you wanna call it, so if god did evolve us into humans, then perhaps he changed us, like balls of clay, into his image.

As far as Squirrel's point (well, what she learned, not her thoughts) :):
From what I heard we are very closely related to primates, then again, we are also closely related to the fruit fly, so I dunno, you make the thoughts, lol. However, their basis on the evolution thing is the discovery of creatures that look a little like primates and a little like man (cro-magnan sp?). That's where they get that, kind of like birds coming from dinosaurs.

The Big Bang Theory:
I laugh at this for two reasons. First of all, how did the big bang start? and secondly, The possibility that that theory is true, is the same that a tornadoe can go through a junk yard producing a fully funcional Airplane.

My Two Cents:

I personally think that arguing about the Genesis story is missing the big point. The point is that God made us, and that's all good.
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Post by BoBo »

big bang is true.... God spoke and bang it happend. srry but i agrea with x compleatly. genisis is one book that is in a lot of religons. i mean every one has something slightly difrentbut prety much there are 2 ideas how the world was made eather 1 something farly close to what is in genisus or 2 evolution.





and also how is this trash talking?
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Post by lumberpat »

But the two aren't opposing. I dunno if I didn't make myself clear enough, but
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY OF CREATION, IT'S A THEORY OF HOW LIFE ADAPTS TO IT'S SURROUNDINGS!!!
Besides, who's to say that God didn't cause the evolution to happen? Are you saying that he couldn't have done that? I dunno, I think it's pretty presumptuous for us to think we can explain what god did. And I also don't see what's so blasphemous about saying that the story of adam and eve isn't exactly how it happened, but more of a parable?
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Post by lumberpat »

By the By, here are some quotes from Albert Einstein that are kind of related to this

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein

God doesn't play dice.
-- Albert Einstein

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." --Albert Einstein
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Post by BoBo »

ok i beleve that God loves us and if this is true i do not beleve that what we are to day is from survival of the fitest or what not. because God loves every one not just the strongest fastest and best. if you think about it survivel of the fitest if very cruel and i dont think God would put us humans threw that
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Post by SPiKed X »

lol ok first off. Adam and Eve were told:

Genesis 1:28
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


That is how Cain and Abel came about:

Genesis 4:1
1 Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.


Evolution "as being taught" in schools, is to explain "where WE came from". I know things "evolve", I do not dispute that at all. Only that as Darwin's Theory of Evolution states that we came from Apes.

Something I read on the web just now, looking for info:



This is an article about Creationism vs. Evolution. It's more Evo based though. It tries the attempt of saying a day "could" be more. But it is actually saying a day could be millions or even billions of years. (By using it's "scientific" proof. His quote below:

The word "day" in the Creation Story is the translation of the Hebrew word "yom." Like "evening," "morning," and virtually every word in the English language, "day" possesses more than one definition. The Hebrew word "yom" is actually similar to the English word "day" in the ways it may be used. It may consist of twenty-four hours, the daylight portion of a day, an era, or a unit of work.


LoL in others words, how we say "Back in the day," Or "in the day of..."

Now answer me this, as a person of faith, (the person writing the article, and or us), how, and why do we even fathom God taking millions/billions, or even a year compared to a day to create the universe? A God that sent His only Son here for only 33 years to accomplish the awesome feat of taking on the punishment for all our sins, from people thousands of years before Him, and we know atleast 2 thousand years after Him. (and billions of people's sin, trillions (or more) sins). If it only took Him 33 years to do an even more imaginable thing like that, then how can we say it took Him millions/billions of years to create us?

You know if you think about it this way, then maybe we could possibly be living during the "7th Day", where He is resting and not working.

In his final thoughts of the article, I really think he goes wrong, cuz he is only following Evolution's theory.

The more and more studies done trying to disprove an intelligent Creator that are being done, are actually doing more to prove Him, and disprove the evolutionary theory.

I do say, that the way the earth came to be, could be from the "actions" reported in the Evo theory, but what I don't aggree with is:

1. That it wasn't intelligently designed.
2. That it happened over millions/billions of years.
3. That we just evolved in the ways the theory/ies states.

A quote from ChristianRock.Net's forums, and a post below from it It hink says it best:

the fact that God can't be disproven, is in itself a proof of his existence. evolution, on the other hand, has become an immense impossibility

I used to think God's existence could be proven. but then i did a philosophy paper on the subject. what i did was take a philosopher's arguments against the popular proofs of God's existence, and i refuted them. then i researched and thought up some other arguments for his existence. there are quite a few, but nothing concrete, of course. but in my research, i learned that the philosopher (bertrand russell) was once asked what he would say to God if he died and found out that he was wrong about him not existing. and would say, "God! why did you make the evidence for your existence so insufficient!" and i realized that God could have given us evidence for his existence -- but he had a reason not to. if it were known as a fact by everyone that God existed, how many people do you think would actually have faith outside of their knowledge? and it seems that many ppl would just "repent" out of necessity, nothing more.


The last thing the article refrenced above says, is absolutely true, and I totally agree, and is along the lines of what Pat said:

The Bible may not be very specific or explanatory in its scientific statements. It may not satisfy the demands of science in its explanations, its reasoning, or its methodology. This is because the Bible's primary objective is to reveal God's message to humanity, and not to answer the riddles of science. The Bible is not a scientific textbook, although it does contain many verses that are scientific in nature. Its mission is primarily spiritual salvation, and not scientific conjecture or solutions. This makes the science of the Bible very difficult to assess and discern. And yet, throughout the Creation Story the theme is indisputable. Every natural process, every natural system, every law of science, and all life, matter, and energy that exists within our universe today are derived from one, omnipotent source - and that is the Hebrew God of the Holy Bible. Not even modern science has been able to repudiate this scientific statement, which is the very foundation of the Biblical Creation.


From Webster's :P

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion
Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
1 : one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved
3 : the process of working out or developing
4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations
5 : the extraction of a mathematical root
6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

it all depends on where he is relative to the sun. For example, a Jupiter "day" (1 full rotation) is 10 earth hours.


LoL the scientist question. Wouldn't you think, that since the Bible is written for us, that He would be using "our time" to describe the actions.

As for the parable idea, that could be possible, yet what is He teaching us other than that He created us? That's why Christ used parables, to teach. God in the Old Testament didn't use parables anywhere that I am aware of. He was quite direct.

BTW that's a Catholic belief not to take the Word of God literally, lol. Had a big problem with that when thinking of joining the Catholic Church.

And I enjoy debating the issues. If it weren't for debating, some would never learn. :D
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Post by Squee »

lumberpat wrote: As far as Squirrel's point (well, what she learned, not her thoughts) :):


yes it is what i learned but i also believe it.. srry for not clarifying that.... my thought on the whole thing is that we did not come from mokeys/apes/gorrilas whatever animal.. but see i am a catholic and i know that your not supposed to question your religion... well with all this talk about religion even in my history class... i think well how did he make us.. cuz there is no way that someone can just think something and it happen.. yeah he created man then he made woman from the rib of adam... idk i always get lost when it come to god and jesus.. because people say jesus as if he were god.. and i also get confuse on how he just "made" man.. see and noone has been abel to answer my questions.. and i have been going to a catholic school for 9 years.. and ever sinc 5th grade i have been asking thses questions.. and they just say well we just know... now to me at the time it sounded like a good answer but now that im older and i developed you own oppinions and i am more involved with the world around me .. that is when i begin to question my religion more.. idk.. my thought is that we should just forget everything.. it just creates too much problem.. there was something that came up to the supreme court about the 10 comandments being between two buildings in texas that had to deal with government now they are fighting to take it down because it breaks i forget which commandment that says government cannot get involved with religion..

if this doesnt make sence in srry im sure you will get over it
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Post by SPiKed X »

lol k Honey first off. It was a law that they say it breaks, not a Commandment. It supposedly breaks the Seperation of State and Religion law. Which i think is bs, but we won't go there right now.

As for your Jesus being God, well, lol, He is. But I want to leave that for let's say the next topic, shall we?

If you are questioning your religion, your faith, no, that is not wrong. You won't grow in your faith if you don't question it. You have to ask questions to those that are more knowlegable than you to learn. When we read the Bible, we are looking for answers to our questions. (Catholic church wrong again, lol.)

God "just made" man, because He is just that, The Creator. He made everything from absolutely nothing. Don't think of Him as a human, (cept Christ, but nother subject as said, lol). I(f you think of him as a human, you limit Him to human boundaries, just like we deal with. God is all powerful and all knowing. He created ALL things around you, and including you. The Bible says, "He knew you name while you were yet in the womb."
my thought is that we should just forget everything.. it just creates too much problem.
No you don't "just forget" everything, lol. Learn your faith. Question your faith. discuss your faith with those around you. Your faith is what trully MAKES you. It is what determines who you are, what you do, and where you WILL go, lol. But it's about a relationship with a God that loves you, and that would, and did, everything He possibley could to show you, and to help you to Love Him. That's ALL He wants, is for us to submit our hearts, and lives to Him. For us to Love Him more than anything in this world. For He conquered the world. The world hated Him. The world Crucified Him. Yet He allowed it! He did it to show you how much He loves you. Don't be afraid to question, PLEASE. If your questioning, you are searching. Your search will undoubtedly keep you in His arms.
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Post by SPiKed X »

The above website ChristianRock.net, is a great place to learn and discuss things of religion with fellow believers. Trust me Hun, any question you have, if you'll just do a search on it in their forums, you'll find someone else that has the same question, and some people that have tried to answer it. :D
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Post by f@tal »

squee, the answer to ur question is: we dont know nor will we find out while we are on earth, thats why its called faith.

back to the whole evo prospect, i dont necessarily believe that we came from monkeys/apes (which would essentially mean we could have come from bacterium) but i do believe that it has, although slight, a possible truth in it. And who's to say that God didnt create evolution? We will never KNOW where we came from, but we can develop theories to help ourselves feel powerful and all knowing.

And bobo, what u said about god not creating survival of the fittest etc. God gave us free will, and I believe that we have an infinite amount of paths we can take with that free will. Which would mean that God didnt create violence, he created free will, which in turn allowed other people to create violence.

Well, im done for now
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Post by lumberpat »

I never questioned where Cain and Abel came from I said, where did Cain's Wife come from. I agree with you about the schools teaching that, all I was saying is that Evolution is true and can't be denied. Take the moths in England, when there was a lot of polution they changed from the forest colors to the colors for the ash, when the polution went away the moths went back. Not chameleon like, but through procreation, and EVOLUTION. This was my only point about that.

And, no, it wasn't a scientist's question, it was just a question to point out the relativity of time.

As far as parables, He was teaching us about how we were created. But if it'd make a difference, change the word to paraphrase, I don't care. My point is that I don't believe we should take the first part of Genesis literally.

X, I've got two questions for you:
Do you believe "Baring false witness against your neighbor" means lying? If yes, then read below, if no, then it's not very relavent

#2
Say I came down to your house for the weekend, and I was staying in your garage. A man comes to your door and says, "Tell me where Pat wendell is right now or I am going to shoot your wife" What would you do? I personally would lie, because I think god would see the greater good in that. However, one who takes the word of god literally would say that you don't lie, and you tell him where I am, or you say nothing and he shoots your wife. I am United Methodest (Protestant), and I believe that God wants us to know the spirit of his word, like what he means behind it.
It's a personal opinion, but I think It'd be dangerous to Not be able to look for the meaning in god's word.
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Post by SpikedCoffey »

OK folks i am gonna shed a ltl light on to the matter called science. No, i don't mean evolution.

For starters i would like to address the issue of "how long is a day with God." well however long it is, it can'e be THAT long because the earth, if u believe in the bible, is only roughly 6,000 years old. Incase you've never heard this report before i bet thats pretty shocking because for all ur life u been told that the earth is billions of years old. Thats crap, we're still taking the price tags off of it. Heres a ltl evidence i like to use to prove that.

"Thats one small step for man. One giant leap for man kind." Do you know what the next thing out of Niel Armstrong's mouth was? "Wheres the dust?" What he was referring to was the belief that the moon had roughly 11 feet of space dust on it. The scientist had run the calculations on the average rate at which dust collected on the moon by calculating the amount of matter that colided with it each year multiplied how old they thought the earth was. Instead there was only a ltl over an inch of dust there which if u multiply the collection rate times roughly 6,000 it comes out to be about that amount. Want proof? You can dl Neil Armstrongs entire conversation with NASA on the internet. Furthermore, why do u think they put those big goofy snow-show looking landing feet on the pod? If they were the greatest engineers of that time and they weren't expecting dust then surely they would have put a landing mechanism that anchored itself into the ground.

#2, marshmallows and lobsters. I know, lemme explain this one. At the current rate the sun is depleating (its a big ball of gas so a ltl more burns out everyday) if u reverse the rate at which its girth shrinks per year and go back millions or billions of years then you got some serious problems. Mercury and Mars would be inside the sun roasting like marshmallows and the temperature on the earth would have been several thousand degrees hot, cooking all living things like lobsters. OK my analogies suck but my point remains valid. :P

Evolution should more be described as adaptation. There that sounds better. The whole "man from monkey" thing doesn't really hold up because it directly says that God breathed life into the dirt and made man. Not "God blew a raspberry on a monkeys stomache and he laughed so hard all his hair fell out and he began to walk upright" Plus if got created us in his image and monkeys did come first, does God like to eat bananas? I personally don't like em too good.

Also theres a book out called "1984" or something like that. its one of those years in the '80s. But it talks about what life will be like in 1984 (this book was wrote well before then) and talked about the current rate of developement of technology by mankind then if we had millions of years to prgress we sure as heck didn't get very far.

well thats my story and i'm sticking to it.
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Post by f@tal »

i agree with you pat, the bible can be taken any way some1 wants to. some person (though they wouldnt be too smart) could say that killing ppl was okay because they made sacraficial offerings in the bible. sure thats ona whole different level, but its essentially the same thing
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Post by SPiKed X »

LoL dude, you'd be ratted out with the quickness! :lol:

Ahh my bad on the Cain's wife deal. But you know people slept with/married their own sisters and things back then which is what helped create the population so most Christian scholars would say that's where she came from.

God only created 2 people. The rest of us are from them. Hence Brothers and Sisters we all are.

My scientist comment was a joke lol. But that is a tactic used by the opposition, lol opposition :P

You are in the minority as for taking the Bible literally. Now as far as people believing some of the Bible was written in response to life at the time, (women speaking in church, etc.), that I wont argue.
It's a personal opinion, but I think It'd be dangerous to Not be able to look for the meaning in god's word.
LoL absolutely agree, never said otherwise.

BTW I'm United Methodist as well, (well not a member yet). But first and foremost born again Christian :D
I believe that God wants us to know the spirit of his word, like what he means behind it.
Agreed as well. But does that mean that we add to the Scriptures or take away from them? (last verses of Revelation) :P

As I said though, did a God that only took 33 years to forgive all of humanity it's sins actually take even 1 million years to form the universe? A million years between the "days" of creation? I don't see how He would have. So yes, I take the first chapters, and all of the chapters of the Bible literally. As far as the "story" they are telling. I know He didn't mean, well then He could have, for us to pluck out our eye if it causes us to sin. :lol:

But I do believe that if He says He created us on the 6th day, then He did it. God can't lie. His word doesn't lie. For He said:

John 1:1-4
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
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Post by SPiKed X »

f@tal wrote:i agree with you pat, the bible can be taken any way some1 wants to. some person (though they wouldnt be too smart) could say that killing ppl was okay because they made sacraficial offerings in the bible. sure thats ona whole different level, but its essentially the same thing
That's a common myth, lol. First off, sacrifices were ended with the last Sacrifice. The Sacrifice of Christ.

Now while someone can use one word, or verse of Scripture, to try to prove a point, it may not stand up if you are smart enough to look it up and put the word in the context it was used in originally.

This is also why, we should learn the Word. We should have it ingrained on our minds, and in our hearts. We should meditate on it daily. (not saying I do, cuz I don't. But it is the advice from Scripture itself, just not the same exact wording :P)
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
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Post by lumberpat »

Well, don't get me wrong, I dont' think that it can be taken any way one wants to take it. That's what bible thumpers do. I'm just saying that there is more meaning to the bible than just the literal phrases. There is a happy medium, between bible thumpin idiots who make the bible say what they want it to (by cutting words from verses, and only telling half stories) and people who take the bible to the utmost literality (word?). Someone who would rather someone die than tell a lie (no, rhyme wasn't intended) See example above.

However, I go with my First section of My Two Cents:

I think arguing about how god created us is missing the big picture. I think we need to say, God created us, And that was Awesome. Who cares how it happened? I'm just glad it did.
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Post by f@tal »

i was saying ppl can try to twist the Word to make it say what they want it to say. Hence extremists are born.
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Post by BoBo »

1 barring faulse wintess would be teaching the big bang therory as a fact not lying.

2. fatal i was talking bout skinny ppl being born in the far north and dieng cause of no heat not violence violence is complytly our fault not gods.

3 and ppl do interpreat the bible difrently my dad is all over this stuff and says that in the bible when it says we should help the pore the word used for pore more comonly means ppl that cant help them selves as in sick ppl or disabled ppl not ppl to lazy to work.
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Post by BoBo »

Ps x you should become a preacher in stead of youth minister you are smart.
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Post by f@tal »

lol i wasnt refering to what u said when i talked about violence, just using it as an example
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Post by Belleraphon »

Holy cow how did all this happen in the span of one day. Woosh ive always hated religious discussion just because in my opnion, what I learn in Science class kind of goes against what I learn at church. But, lol I didnt really read all that was said but one point I saw was about how we have no concept of how long a day is for god, maybe his day lasted millions of years and in that time is when things evolved. And I agree with one ting Pat said waaay back at the top lol, whos to say He didn't cause the evoloution. Now forgive me if somone said any of that already lol ill take time to read it all tomorrow.
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Post by SPiKed X »

John 1:1-4 NIV
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

John 1-3 Amplified Version
1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
2He was present originally with God.

3All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

John 1:1-4 New Living Bible
1In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3He created everything there is. Nothing exists that he didn't make. 4Life itself was in him, and this life gives light to everyone.

John 1:1-5 (New American Standard Bible)

The Deity of Jesus Christ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.

3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


These are just a few of the Scriptures that point to the Diety of Christ, Christ being God in flesh. I posted the different versions of the same verses just so you'd see the difference from version to version. (as you may know, their are many different versions of the Bible, all for the most part saying the same thing, just one says it a way one person can understand it, and another the way someone else can understand.)

It was prophesied in the Old Testament that a Saviour would come from the line of David, (David and Goliath), that would be of God, and some said He would BE God. His genealogy is found in Matthew assuring us that He was trully of the line of David. Yet Jewish people do not believe this, and do not believe He is The Messiah.

John 8:53-NIV
53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57“You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”


Abraham is said to be the "father" of the Jews. He is recorded in the old Testament, many many years before Christ. Hence He is saying, He was there, as God, in the beginning.

John 14:6-10 NIV
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?


And now for some about the Holy Spirit, who is also God, (the Spirit of God), and is concidered part of the Trinity. (God in three persons) Lol now I've really blown your mind :P

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)


This is the time we are at now. We don't have God "walking" with us as we did in the Old Testament. We don't have God in the flesh, Christ, with us on the earth now. But now we have His 3rd form. The form of the Holy Spirit guiding us and directing us daily now.

I'm here to answer all you questions, lol. Or atleast try :D
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

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