Religious Discussion?

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Post by SPiKed X »

WoW lol Bell, what religion are you?
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

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Post by lumberpat »

Well, maz, first off, I think I'm enough reason to do anything to get there ;), however, I"m not gonna stand here and say, I'm going to heaven, because I'm all holy and stuff. The pure fact is, mazza, you are partly right. Christians aren't superior, they're just forgiven. If you ask God for forgiveness, and mean it, then he will. That's what is meant by repenting

Here's my take on the whole heaven vs. hell thing:

WE make the choice of whether to go to be with god or not, HE wants everyone in heaven, but he can't make you accept him. Anywho, I dun know the exact scriptures to answer your question, mazza, but in order to ask for all that forgiveness, then wouldn't you kind of have to worship him?
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Post by f@tal »

most basic and simple requirement for heaven:

Believe and accept God and the Lord Jesus Christ as your god and savior
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Post by SPiKed X »

Well Mazza since you asked :D
John 3:1-18 NIV
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”

5Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:7 Amplified Version
Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).
John 3:3 New Living Version
Jesus replied, "I assure you, unless you are born again, [ Or born from above; also in 3:7.] you can never see the Kingdom of God. "
Acts 4:12
12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved .
1 Peter 1:23 New Living Version
For you have been born again. Your new life did not come from your earthly parents because the life they gave you will end in death. But this new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.
Revelation 20:15
15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
These verses are all about "beiing Born Again." Meaning, when you accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour, you become a new "birth" in Him. You die to yourself. You give up "your" rights to your life, and you let Him take control.

You see, before Christ was crucified, He told the desciples:
John 14:15-31
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever– 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
You see, when we're "born again" we receive the Holy Spirit in our hearts, that helps us live for Christ. He helps us to do things, that with out Him we couldn't. By accepting Him, we accept, Christ, so we also accept God Himself.

By doing His will, and not our own, by following His word. These are the ways we show we Love Him.

Following rules, being a "good person" WILL NOT get anyone into Heaven. No matter how "good" you are, you're still not perfect. God can only accept perfection. Christ is the only person to ever walk this earth and not sin. He was our perfect Sacrifice. He paid the penalty we should be paying ourselves. And if you don't or haven't accepted Him, you will pay the penalty for your sins youself.

But what is this sin thing, you might ask.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 NIV
20 There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.

Romans 3:11-1810As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God. 12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good,
not even one.
” 13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.” “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways, 17and the way of peace they do not know.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Sin is plainly, "not doing the will of God." Anytime you deny Him, you sin. Any time you worry about something, you sin. If you gossip, you sin. If you curse, you sin. If you think wrong about someone, you sin.

As the Bible says, "There is NONE righteous." Not one person is "good enough" to get into Heaven.

Now yes, the Bible says, "Have faith" or "believe" in Jesus, and you'll be saved. But remember, even Satan "believes" in Christ in the since that he knows Christ exist. But to believe, means to "believe in". Or better put, to TRUST in Him. Trust Him for everything. Trust Him for salvation. Trust Him also that you'll have food to eat tomorrow. Trust Him with your finances. Trsut Him with your prayers. If you do these things, you are living for Him. You are "believing in Him, and believing Him".
Matthew 12:30
30“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.
This verse is the real BIGGY for those that, either don't believe, don't wanna believe, or that say "I'll do my own thing right now. Maybe later I'll concider God." Plain and simple, "If your not with Me, you are against Me." If you don't accept Him, then you're an enemy of Him. This is straight from God's mouth.

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
This is the verse, one of many, that says "Jesus and God are one in the same." Jesus has the authority of God to cast of Heaven, or let into Heaven.


:lol: I hope this explains things Mazza, and others.

What do you mean by "I don't wanna go to Heaven"? LoL do you know the alternative? :p
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

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Post by SPiKed X »

Good job Pat.

Well done Fatal bro. Man that's the shortest way to put it. lol to bad I got too much to say.
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

Visit my MySpace page>>

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My profile on Shoutlife.com
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Post by Belleraphon »

X to answer you, I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...or for the more common name that more people know, im a mormon
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Post by [!!!]xX »

sorry too much religious reading for me there...Hell it is i guess :D oh well at least i will be amongst friends :D
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Post by Squee »

i gave up reading this along time ago.. its lke i turn around and 15 people have posted... :P
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Post by Belleraphon »

yeah I make a post, go to a movie, and theres already half a new page
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Post by BoBo »

for those to lazy to read.



x and me thinks evolution is stupid
Jesus and God and the Holy Ghost are the same person but difrent
and as fatal put it to be saved / born again you need to Believe and accept God and the Lord Jesus Christ as your god and savior.
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Post by f@tal »

belle, ur denomination thinks u have to be married to go to heaven???
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Post by Belleraphon »

Ok my "denomination" believes that there are 3 degrees of glory in heaven, the highest is the Celestial Kingdom, then there is the Telestial Kingdom and the 3rd is the terestial kingdom, if you don't achieve any of these kingdoms than you are lost in outer darkness. In order to make it to the Celestial Kingdom and be in god's presence for eternity you have to do the things I said. You have to be sealed to your spouse in the house of the lord, the temple. Before you can do this though you have to take out endowments in the temple. Before you're even allowed in the temple you must be baptised into the church. I should have though about this earlier, not like people like Fatal would have cared but X might have a little bit. Every 6 months the General Authorities of our church meet in the Mormon... tabernacle?.. anyway, they meet in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the meeting is broadcasted via satelite all over the world so the members of our church can hear the counseling of our modern day Prophet and Apostles. Anyway lol, that was this weekend and you could have watched it, its open for the public to view if you get satelite in your home, but most of the members go to our church where we can view it.
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Post by SPiKed X »

LoL Good Job Bobo. :P

Bell, um, uh, you're not a denomination. Church of Latter Day Saints is a whole different religion.

Mormonism, and Christianity both believe Christ is the Lord and Saviour. But, Mormonism teaches that He, after being crucified, raised, and ascended into Heaven, that He then came to America and taught. This belief is based on one man's dreams, Joseph Smith.

Here's the History of the Mormon church:
In 1816, Joseph Smith and his family moved to Palmyra, New York, where, in 1820, a religious revival occurred. Joseph, a very young 14-year-old boy, was very intrigued by thenumerous preachers and what they had to say. However, he was also confusedbecause each church claimed to be the "true" one. He decided to turn to theBible for assistance. There he found the scripture: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraidethnot; and it shall be given him (James 1:5).
This inspired Smith to go to a nearby grove and pray for guidance. During this prayer, God and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to him there and commanded him not to join any of the existing churches because the Church originally organized by God would soon be restored upon the earth.

In 1823, Smith had another vision, this time of an angel named Moroni. The angel directed Smith to a hill near Palmyra; buried under this hill was a religious history of an ancient American civilization inscribed on golden plates. Four years later, Smith translated this record (which was written in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics) into what is now known as the Book of Mormon . In 1830, Smith established the "Church of Christ" in Fayette, New York; however, later revelation (in 1838) commanded that the name be changed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Sorry Bell, but, lol, I got to say this: (not to diss, only to explain. I used a very objective source for the Mormonism information).

Their interpretation of the 3 Heavens comes from the verse from Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:2
2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Mormon teaching is the 3 levels of Heaven Bell listed above.

Christian teaching is:

That Jews didn't have the scientific knowlege we have today. In their custom they used a visual interpretation of the atmoshere's, or eath's surroundings. Some models had 7 "heavens", some only 3. Go here to read the exacting of this.

Go here to read all about the Mormon church and it's beliefs, and history.

Another thing different about these 2 beliefs is this statement:
The highest degree of glory, and the one LDS members strive to reach, is the Celestial Kingdom . This Kingdom is reserved for those who received the testimony of Jesus, believed in his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial. Entrance into this Kingdom requires a temple marriage and sealing (see below); people are able to dwell in the presence of both God the Father and Jesus Christ for all eternity. Latter-day Saints believe that eternal life is the greatest of all God's gifts, and the Plan of Salvation is His way of making it available to them. They also believe that every person has the potential to become a God with all the power and glory that God the Father possesses.
Christian belief has nothing to do with us becoming "gods" or "having the power" of them. This is where many religions differ from Christianinty. They become "ME" focused. They try to say that we as humans, "have the ability" to become gods or be like gods.

Also the Christian chuch doesn't "recognize" any "additions" to the Holy Bible, Old Testament over 2000yrs old, and New Testament almost 2000 yrs. old. This is, one, because fo the last few verses of the Book of Revelation 22:18-19:
18For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
It is also said "if a religion can be founded by only one man, it is not concidered "true". As it is "one man's view."

The Christian Bible is written by many, many authors, all pointing to the same source of Salvation. All point to the same God. All were written at different times, and written in many different places. If you follow the history of how the Bible came together, you'll find it quite amazing that it has all survived "the test of time" (cliche :P).

Mormonism also seems to be more "work" orientated. Similiar to Jehovah's Witnesses.

For a break down of the different "Christ-based" religions, go here

Just thought this was a time to show the differences between faiths, since Bell, you said "Denominations." :D

ThanX and GO HEELS!
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

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Post by BoBo »

i dont like that last link at all x. the advanits it ask questions they awnswer the babptis it talks bout compleatly difrent stuff.

also is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a break off of mormons or rlds?
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Post by Belleraphon »

lol Bobo The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints and Mormons and LDS are all the same thing, and X sorry lol, I didnt even know what a denomination was : /. I dont really know much about any other religion which is why I dont really participate here. I only know what ive been taught growing up. Its probably better if I knew about other religions other than my own but I dont so im content with pretty much just reading what you have to say. Also I do want to say that Joseph Smith didn't add on to the bible though. We have Articles of Faith in our church, 13 of them, one of them states that we " We believe the bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly, we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God." The bible is a ?testiment? of Jesus Christ, printed on the book of mormon are the words another testament of jesus christ. It is a seperate book, not part of the bible. And it came from a different place altogether. Lol X prolly knows that already but thats how I saw it when X quoted Revelations 22: 18.
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Post by Belleraphon »

Lol but you know, you can just ignore most of my last post lol, that link X put up had a link to the Articles of Faith and I bet X read them already, if not sorry for assuming just seemed like you would. And X your link that you gave me calls the LDS church a denomination, "It is the fastest growing major denomination in the world today" I didnt put that becuase of what it says only becuase its the only reference to denomination I found. That was a nice website X.

And I was thinking about what Bobo said, there are break offs of our church such as the polygamy practicing mormons. In our church's history we used to practice polygamy but have long since ended that practice, but there were some members that broke off and now their descendants and converts call themselves mormons but practice polygamy. One of our past prophets stated that the church withdrew its support or what ever from polygamy and anyone who still did it would be excommunicated form the church.
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Post by SPiKed X »

Hey Bell, just wondering something after lookin at another bulletin board I frequent:

How do Mormons believe you get to Heaven? Is there one thing, or does it have to be multiple things, according to the LDS church?

I've heard many things of course, so I'm just wondering what you say, lol.

I've tried reading some of the link I posted above, but all it talks about as for Heaven is the 3 levels.

I mean this right here from that link says that there is a "work" involved to reach the "highest" level:
Entrance into this Kingdom requires a temple marriage and sealing
and this:
Marriages performed in the Church's temples do not end at death; rather, both the marriage and family relationships are sealed for "time and all eternity."
This is condradictory to what Christ said when asked about this from the Saducees. But here's what the LDS Church says proves "eternal marriage":
“And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:19).
And what Christ said:
Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mark 12:25
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Luke 20:34-36
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.

Also is there no talk of Hell? I know it says the first level, Telestial Kingdom is reserved for those that reject Christ. But in Christianity, those that reject Christ are "forever cast into the lake of fire with Satan and his legion."(something like that :P)

And dude I read that you can't have coffee or tea!! Why is this?
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

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Post by Belleraphon »

Ill just start with the freshest in my mind... Our Prophet gave us the Word of Wisdom, which is to help us keep our bodies clean of all impure things, for our bodies are temples which Heavenly Father created for our spirits to abide within during our triel on Earth. We don't drink coffee or tea because they are strong substances that change the natural way our body works... we are told to stay away form smoking, drugs alchohol, premarital sex, pornography and many things in the Word of Wisdom. Now ive had people say things like, oh well drinking any kind of soda will change the way our body works... but we don't drink the coffee and tea becuase of things like all the caffeine. Why do people mainly drink coffee, for the energy boost in the morning, and thats considered a change in our natural order

And about hell. Yes theirs the Telestial Kingdom. Now, sorry again I don't know about other religions so ill really sumarize. There was the battle in heaven and Jesus and Heavenly Father won, but Lucifer was cast out of heaven and along with him went all his followers, somewhere 1/3 of God's children. Well, those people never got bodies, so they come to the Earth to tempt us. Well when Jesus returns to the Earth during the Second Coming, the Earth will be purged of all evil by fire and brimstone and the righteous shall be lifted up out of the fires of hell and preserved, and 1000 years of peace shall follow in which Saintan and his followers will be bound. Hell wuld be for those who are not lifted out of the fire during the second coming.

I thought I explained already about getting into heaven. Ok well our church has temples. Someonewhere around 120 temples are activate around the world. Once you are of age and have developed a testimony that the church is true, you can be baptized at the age 8, or different if you find the church later in your life. Once you are baptized you recieve the gift oh the holy ghost to have with you for as long as your actions are righteous. You also have to enter one of our temples, once you are atleast 18 and have been found worthy and recieved a temple recommend, you enter the temple and take endowments. Which are covenants withour Heavenly Father. Im sorry but I dont really know them. You might that oh thats pathetic but seeing as ive got a while before I can go, we still learn about more basic things in church. Anyway, Once you have taken out endowments, you can enter the temple to be married and sealed to your spouse for all eternity. Those are the requirements for the Celestial Kingdom. Those who reach this degree glory are believed to be able to become as God. and have their own worlds and children and be God's and Goddesses. Those in this Kingdom will forever be in the prescense of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Then the Terestial Kingdom is for those who lived righteous lives and believe in Christ but have never recieved the fullness of the gospel. YOu were never taught of our church and never recieved the ordinances performed in the temple. You may not be as gods and goddesses and you will not be in the presence of The Father, but Chirst may visit you, and people from the Celestial Kingdom may come down to you also.
:lol: :lol: Then in betwen your death and Heaven, there is the Spirit World. Maybe ill explain tomorrow, but X, people who have never had a chance to hear the gospel as we believe, are kept in the spirit world and are given a chance to hear. Theres alot about that too maybe tomorrow. I hope that will suffice for now or that I atleast came near answering your question....I tried
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Post by BoBo »

dont you also beleve in more then one wife? and if you cant have cafein how can you drink soda. and can you have red bull?
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Post by Belleraphon »

Bobo I didnt say we couldnt drink caffiene. Coffee and tea have high amounts in it, we are taught to stay away form Soda's like mountain dew and surge though.

And if you look at X's link way up there its pretty detailed, but we no longer support Polygamy, more than one wife. In the beginging of the church the men would have more than one wife, yes. But after the United States outlawed, the Church stated that anyone who still practiced polygamy would be excommunicated from the church. Now there is a branch off from our church, called the Polygamy Practicing Mormons. One of the people higher up in our church believes that we should continue to practice it, so he started his own church. Theres some city in Utah where they are based, i dont really care... look at X's link if you want to know more but our church does not practice polygamy any more.
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Post by SPiKed X »

First off let me say this, I am really happy to see that you know your religion as well as you do. Even if the Christian church doesn't agree, I do like to see a young male know his religion as well as you do.

And yes lol, I was wondering about the caffiene issue to. So I looked up on Google Caffiene amounts in popular drinks and found this:

Caffeine amounts in popular soft drinks per 12 oz cans:

SOFT DRINK/CAFFEINE LEVEL (mgs)


Mountain Dew/55.0

Diet Mountain Dew/55.0

Coca-Cola/45.6

Diet-Cola/45.6

7 Up/0


Caffeine amounts per 7 oz cups of coffee and tea:

DRINK/CAFFEINE LEVEL (mgs)


Espresso/100

Brewed coffee/80 - 135

Instant/65 - 100

Decaf, brewed/3 - 4

Decaf, instant /2 - 3

Tea iced/70

Tea brewed/40 - 60

Tea instant/30


(Caffeine is sometimes called "theine" when in tea.)

Chocolate also contains caffeine. A 28 gram Cadbury chocolate bar contains about 15 mgs of caffeine.

Instant tea in a 12 ounce serving, as much as the soft drinks listed, has 51,4 mgs of Caffiene, which to me, would make it "legal" for Mormons. LoL here in the south we gotta have our tea :D


Now, for some of the issues you speak of that the Christian Church have problems with:

The belief that we were spirits with God before having human bodies on earth.

Reason being I guess, is because God created Adam and Eve from the earth, not from the spirit world. 2. He says He created us in the womb. 3. He never spoke to the desciples about "being with him before being with Him on the Earth".

The 1000 years of peace is spoke of in the Holy Bible in Revelation so that's agreed upon :P

As for "getting in to Heaven", it seems the Mormons still want to rely on "works" to get you there, hence the marriage and "building a worthy testimony". And the "have been found worthy and recieved a temple recommend". These things are relying on "humans" judgement instead of God's judgement. What did Christ tell Nicodemus when Nic asked "How does one get born again?" Meaning "how does one get saved?" or "How does one get to Heaven?"?

Christ told him he must be born again to enter into Heaven. Meanind all he needed to do was:
John 3:5-7
5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’


He never said you had to be married, or you had to receive acceptance from men. He only said, "You must be born of both water and Spirit." Actually Paul taught that it would be better for man not to marry if he could withstain. That way his focus wouldn't be split between keeping God happy and keeping his spouse happy. Here's his teaching on marriage:

1 Corinthians 7:1-9
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of selfcontrol. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Verse 27-28

27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.



And of course "Those who reach this degree glory are believed to be able to become as God. and have their own worlds and children and be God's and Goddesses." is definitely not agreed with. We are merely humans, and will only be human spirits. We are above the angels, yes, but no where near equal with God.


The Terrestial Kingdom idea I kind of agree with. Here's my thoughts:

I believe that those who have never heard the name of Jesus Christ or anything about the Christian God will, after death, have the opportunity to accept or deny Christ. Not in the first or second judgements. I only think this, as it is my "theory", but there is no Biblical Scripture to back this up that I know of. I do feel that then, if they accept Him, then they will live just like the rest of the Christians, in full communion with the Lord forever.


Christ told us we need to do ONE thing to make it to Heaven:

John 3:15-21
15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”


You see, He didn't say, "Whoever believes in me and gets married, sealed in the Temple, and is seen as worthy by his peers and pastors of the church may enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."

Works are merely a witness to our faith in Christ, but not what saves us.

The in "between death and Heaven" issue is long standing lol. No one is sure if we "sleep" or if we are immediately in the presence of the Lord. I think the latter, because Christ told the thief there on the Cross, that:

Luke 23:39-43
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”

40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don't you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]”

43 Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”


I think the idea that we will just be "asleep" till Christ's second coming comes from Revelation where it says "and all those who had died before and are in the ground will rise and assemble with Him in the sky." So there it sounds like "we are asleep." But to me this could possible be just the ones "before Christ". IDK really lol.







Mazza, I hope you have come back and have still been reading what we say lol. But most importantly I hope you see this:

If you really don't believe what the Christian church teaches. Then I only ask you take the time to read one, just one, book of the Bible.

The Book of John

This is the book that details what we believe, why we believe the best, I think, of all the books in the Bible. If you can read it, and not feel any different about it at all, then atleast you've made your choice with the "knowlege" that you made it based on actual information straight from the source, and not based on the people that "claim" to follow it.

If you don't have a Bible or have access to one, you can easily read it online here: The Book of John
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

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BoBo
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Post by BoBo »

if you want a bible go to any church they will give you one. if not buy one then set up a paypal acount and i will refund the money for you.
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Post by SPiKed X »

lol Amen Bobo, Amen :D

And don't think we're just "Bible thumpin". I wouldn't tell anyone about Christ I didn't care. It's very easy to just keep your faith to your self and not let anyone know. So trust me, we wouldn't tell ya if we didn't love you.

BTW there is SO much more to being a Christian than just going to Heaven.
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

Visit my MySpace page>>

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Post by Belleraphon »

Well X, ill make a nother one if I get a chance after school, but last night I had this great post and I was confident I had said everything I had wanted just right.... and I have the most horrible computer or something... I clicked post and it said Page Cannot Be Displayed... so I hit back, a little panicky, and everytyhing was still there so I hit post again... Page Cannot... back... everything was there.... so I waited like 10 minutes hoping it would sort itself out... I come back and hit Post... page cannot... hit back...PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED!!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!
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Post by SPiKed X »

lol All thos echances and you didn't "copy", refresh the page or go back to the index, then "paste" it as a new reply.

I've had the same prob before. That's where I learned to "copy" most of my long post just in case :P
From: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Some of my favorite sites:

* ChristianRock.net * Jesus Freak Hideout * Christian Rock Lyrics * Call FM * Pure Volume * Steelroots.tv *

Visit my MySpace page>>

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My profile on Shoutlife.com
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